[aklug] Re: Rebasing the discussion

Oh cool I get to top post ;-)
I agree with Damien and Jonr. I respectfully disagree with Arthur.

I stand by my earlier comment about not re-inventing the wheel. there is
already enough documentation on the net. why not learn how to search and
use whats available, newcomers and all. I am not sure of what is the best
way forward but I feel that it is different than what we have done in the
past, except for this list, which is a great resource.

Rant warning:
I don't need anyones permission to use or show someone how to use libre
software. All are welcome regardless of motives. Some of the comments
sound like FUD, who is a real Linux user , maybe that is me, oh my GOD I
am not a real Linux user...ACK!

Remember: "The only requirement for using Linux is a 'desire' to be
restored to sanity" :-)
Rant off:

On Thursday 17 September 2009, Damien Hull wrote:
> I agree with most of this. However, I still think we should be open to
> all = users. This doesn't mean I want to feed them some info and send
> them on the= re way. We need to give them some level of training. That
> brings me to my s= econd issue.=20
>
> I don't believe AKLUG is organized or professional enough to give any
> real = training. Not yet anyway. I'm going through computer training at
> Charter Co= llege. That's serious training. I don't think we need to go
> that far. I do = believe that a formal approach to Linux training would
> help a lot. That tak= es time, effort and planning.
>
> Is this something the group is willing to do?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arthur Corliss" <acorliss@nevaeh-linux.org>
> To: aklug@aklug.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:18:30 AM GMT -09:00 Alaska
> Subject: [aklug] Rebasing the discussion
>
> Greetings:
>
> We've definitely gone off on a hell of a tangent on this discussion,
> and from some of the responses I fear people may misinterpret my
> position. =C2= =A0So,
> I'd like a chance to refocus the discussion on the core question,
> originall= y
> presented by Jon: =C2=A0what is our goal?
>
> Before answering that I would take a step back further and ask who
> (AKLUG) are we? =C2=A0The obvious answer is that we're a Linux advocacy
> group. =C2= =A0At its
> most shallow definition that means we're just a local PR outfit.
> =C2=A0At a deeper level, though, I think it was intended that we be
> part of the Linux and OSS community.
>
> I don't think anyone here would deny that we are or should be part of
> the "community" and community-minded. =C2=A0But I'm not sure everyone
> here has understood the implications.
>
> Let's go back a moment to Eric Raymond's "The Cathedral and the
> Bazaar". Linux, according to his analogy, is the bazaar model. =C2=A0A
> lot of OSS so= ftware
> is also developed in the bazaar model. =C2=A0The bazaar is that chaotic
> mar= ket
> place with a hundred stalls, with vendors buying and selling, sometimes
> combining the wares of other stalls into new wares in their stall.
> =C2=A0It= 's a
> collaborative environment where the product is dynamically shaped by
> both buyers and sellers, each according to their whims.
>
> Now, it is definitely possible for an individual to come into the
> bazaar, purchase something from a stall, and go home. =C2=A0That's a
> prototypical consumer, not a member of the bazaar community.
> =C2=A0Shopping at Walmart i= n the
> Valley makes me no more a member of that community than shopping here
> in Anchorage does. =C2=A0Consumption is a one-way relationship, a
> unidirection= al
> transaction. =C2=A0Relationships aren't built that way, nor does any
> meanin= gful
> collaboration.
>
> And that's the point of the bazaar. =C2=A0Some of us may think we're
> member= s of
> the Linux/OSS community merely because we use it. =C2=A0But I don't
> think t= hat's
> the case. =C2=A0Users are consumers. =C2=A0You may tell your friends
> about = the great
> product that you purchased at the bazaar, but that doesn't make you a
> membe= r
> of that bazaar, either. =C2=A0In order to be a member of the community
> you = need
> to contribute, establish and nourish relationships, participate in the
> development of the product.
>
> Take Damien's desires, for example. =C2=A0The contribution and
> maintenance = of
> documentation is a valid participation in the bazaar. =C2=A0So is
> beta-test= ing
> new versions of your favorite app/distro and providing feedback to the
> developers. =C2=A0And so is slinging and releasing code.
>
> Jon, he's just an angry bald guy. =C2=A0But, so am I, so I can
> sympathize. = =C2=A0;-)
>
> So, out of this whole "RTFM =3D=3D Elitism" debate we've been having my
> con= cerns
> over the direction of this group has solidified somewhat. =C2=A0If
> AKLUG is= truly
> to be a community participant, and not just a consumer of the community
> product, we cannot have as our primary focus the recruitment of more
> users. Users should be welcome, certainly, but we have limited
> resources, limited volunteer hours, and limited effort being put into
> this group. =C2=A0We nee= d to
> create an enticing environment for producers, builders, *participants*.
> =C2= =A0And
> the prerequisite to that is to develop within ourselves that level of
> participation and, when others have their curiosity piqued, provide
> opportunities for newcomers to participate as well.
>
> Something just occurred to me: =C2=A0say Damien does write the manual,
> and = then
> we tell the newbies to read it -- does that make all of you elitists as
> well? =C2=A0;-)
>
> Anyway, I'd like to see a concerted effort within the group to not
> breed mere Linux consumerism, but more stalls set up in the bazaar.
> =C2=A0Thinkin= g that
> doing the former will be the gateway drug to the latter is extremely
> optimistic in my mind, especially when we're not demonstrating the
> bazaar ourselves. =C2=A0If we fail to do this we'll only end up with an
> extraordin= arily
> large, needy, and angry mob in the middle of the plaza, with perhaps
> only three stalls to serve them all.
>
> Linux and OSS will not be sustained that way. =C2=A0Just my $0.10.
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0--Arthur Corliss
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0Live Free
> or D= ie
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