[aklug] Re: Rebasing the discussion

Yeah, your probably right. Okay, back to work and lurking. Good luck fellas.
--eddie

> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:10:18 +0000
> From: damien@linuxninjas.tv
> To: captgoodnight@hotmail.com
> CC: aklug@aklug.org
> Subject: Re: [aklug] Re: Rebasing the discussion
>
> That's like saying we shouldn't help anyone. I wonder what all that Linux documentation is for. Hmm... I thought it was to help people. Guess not. And maybe we should tell the open source community not to write documentation cause that might help the new user.
>
> I don't understand why helping people has turned into something evil. If it is truly evil then we shouldn't even have a group. Cause you know what. The group has helped me more then once. And I was a new user at one point.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "captgoodnight captgoodnight" <captgoodnight@hotmail.com>
> To: aklug@aklug.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:02:02 AM GMT -09:00 Alaska
> Subject: [aklug] Re: Rebasing the discussion
>
>
> "Is this something the group is willing to do?"
>
> It's something the new user should be willing to do, before ever potentially expecting a group to do it for them.
>
> If you see Tux in the road, kill him!
> Eat your fish in the shadows, not in the streets!
> A penguin will see Tux when he is ready.
>
> http://www.google.com/linux?hl=en&q=
>
> 2 cents,
> --eddie
>
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:41:28 +0000
> > From: damien@linuxninjas.tv
> > To: acorliss@nevaeh-linux.org
> > CC: aklug@aklug.org
> > Subject: [aklug] Re: Rebasing the discussion
> >
> > I agree with most of this. However, I still think we should be open to all =
> > users. This doesn't mean I want to feed them some info and send them on the=
> > re way. We need to give them some level of training. That brings me to my s=
> > econd issue.=20
> >
> > I don't believe AKLUG is organized or professional enough to give any real =
> > training. Not yet anyway. I'm going through computer training at Charter Co=
> > llege. That's serious training. I don't think we need to go that far. I do =
> > believe that a formal approach to Linux training would help a lot. That tak=
> > es time, effort and planning.
> >
> > Is this something the group is willing to do?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Arthur Corliss" <acorliss@nevaeh-linux.org>
> > To: aklug@aklug.org
> > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:18:30 AM GMT -09:00 Alaska
> > Subject: [aklug] Rebasing the discussion
> >
> > Greetings:
> >
> > We've definitely gone off on a hell of a tangent on this discussion, and
> > from some of the responses I fear people may misinterpret my position. =C2=
> > =A0So,
> > I'd like a chance to refocus the discussion on the core question, originall=
> > y
> > presented by Jon: =C2=A0what is our goal?
> >
> > Before answering that I would take a step back further and ask who (AKLUG)
> > are we? =C2=A0The obvious answer is that we're a Linux advocacy group. =C2=
> > =A0At its
> > most shallow definition that means we're just a local PR outfit. =C2=A0At a
> > deeper level, though, I think it was intended that we be part of the Linux
> > and OSS community.
> >
> > I don't think anyone here would deny that we are or should be part of the
> > "community" and community-minded. =C2=A0But I'm not sure everyone here has
> > understood the implications.
> >
> > Let's go back a moment to Eric Raymond's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar".
> > Linux, according to his analogy, is the bazaar model. =C2=A0A lot of OSS so=
> > ftware
> > is also developed in the bazaar model. =C2=A0The bazaar is that chaotic mar=
> > ket
> > place with a hundred stalls, with vendors buying and selling, sometimes
> > combining the wares of other stalls into new wares in their stall. =C2=A0It=
> > 's a
> > collaborative environment where the product is dynamically shaped by both
> > buyers and sellers, each according to their whims.
> >
> > Now, it is definitely possible for an individual to come into the bazaar,
> > purchase something from a stall, and go home. =C2=A0That's a prototypical
> > consumer, not a member of the bazaar community. =C2=A0Shopping at Walmart i=
> > n the
> > Valley makes me no more a member of that community than shopping here in
> > Anchorage does. =C2=A0Consumption is a one-way relationship, a unidirection=
> > al
> > transaction. =C2=A0Relationships aren't built that way, nor does any meanin=
> > gful
> > collaboration.
> >
> > And that's the point of the bazaar. =C2=A0Some of us may think we're member=
> > s of
> > the Linux/OSS community merely because we use it. =C2=A0But I don't think t=
> > hat's
> > the case. =C2=A0Users are consumers. =C2=A0You may tell your friends about =
> > the great
> > product that you purchased at the bazaar, but that doesn't make you a membe=
> > r
> > of that bazaar, either. =C2=A0In order to be a member of the community you =
> > need
> > to contribute, establish and nourish relationships, participate in the
> > development of the product.
> >
> > Take Damien's desires, for example. =C2=A0The contribution and maintenance =
> > of
> > documentation is a valid participation in the bazaar. =C2=A0So is beta-test=
> > ing
> > new versions of your favorite app/distro and providing feedback to the
> > developers. =C2=A0And so is slinging and releasing code.
> >
> > Jon, he's just an angry bald guy. =C2=A0But, so am I, so I can sympathize. =
> > =C2=A0;-)
> >
> > So, out of this whole "RTFM =3D=3D Elitism" debate we've been having my con=
> > cerns
> > over the direction of this group has solidified somewhat. =C2=A0If AKLUG is=
> > truly
> > to be a community participant, and not just a consumer of the community
> > product, we cannot have as our primary focus the recruitment of more users.
> > Users should be welcome, certainly, but we have limited resources, limited
> > volunteer hours, and limited effort being put into this group. =C2=A0We nee=
> > d to
> > create an enticing environment for producers, builders, *participants*. =C2=
> > =A0And
> > the prerequisite to that is to develop within ourselves that level of
> > participation and, when others have their curiosity piqued, provide
> > opportunities for newcomers to participate as well.
> >
> > Something just occurred to me: =C2=A0say Damien does write the manual, and =
> > then
> > we tell the newbies to read it -- does that make all of you elitists as
> > well? =C2=A0;-)
> >
> > Anyway, I'd like to see a concerted effort within the group to not breed
> > mere Linux consumerism, but more stalls set up in the bazaar. =C2=A0Thinkin=
> > g that
> > doing the former will be the gateway drug to the latter is extremely
> > optimistic in my mind, especially when we're not demonstrating the bazaar
> > ourselves. =C2=A0If we fail to do this we'll only end up with an extraordin=
> > arily
> > large, needy, and angry mob in the middle of the plaza, with perhaps only
> > three stalls to serve them all.
> >
> > Linux and OSS will not be sustained that way. =C2=A0Just my $0.10.
> >
> > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0--Arthur Corliss
> > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0Live Free or D=
> > ie
> > ---------
> > To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org>
> > with 'unsubscribe' in the message body.
> >
> >
> > --=20
> > Ubuntu User
> > Open Source Evangelist
> > CERTIFICATIONS
> > linux professional institute level 1, CCENT
> > ---------
> > To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org>
> > with 'unsubscribe' in the message body.
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing� now
> http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1
> ---------
> To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org>
> with 'unsubscribe' in the message body.
>
>
> --
> Ubuntu User
> Open Source Evangelist
> CERTIFICATIONS
> linux professional institute level 1, CCENT
                                               
_________________________________________________________________
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009
---------
To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org>
with 'unsubscribe' in the message body.
Received on Thu Sep 17 11:33:13 2009