Re: [Fwd: Re: AKLUG server]

Quoting Damien Hull <dhull@digitaloverload.net>:

> Forgot to send this to the list.

Damn that reply-to/reply-to all!

And before I start to reply let me say this. I consider Damien a friend and a
competent linux/freebsd admin, though some of his questions to the list make me
question that. j/k ;^)

 This is not meant to be a slam against him in any way, it is just something I
have been watching on the list for awhile.

> I should start out by saying I don't know a lot about the Corliss
> distro. However, I have compiled apache, mysql and php from source. It's
> not an easy task. When we tried to install these applications on the
> Corliss distro there were problems.

It's not ever easy to compile everything by source but you sure understand what
it takes for your app when your done.

>
> 1. Applications were in places I've never seen them in

The dev tools? What applications are in the wrong place?

> 2. Some software was old ( can't remember what )

Actually the whole box is as updated as they come, at least it should have been,
Mike?

> 3. Mike couldn't figure out the problem
>
> If Mike can't figure out the problem what hope do the rest of us have.

Ok, no offense to Mike but he is not the greatest sysadmin the world has ever
known. He has gaps like the rest of us, just because Mike couldn't figure it
out doesn't mean that it is too difficult for anyone else.

> As a system administrator there are a few things I need to take into
> consideration when building a server.
>
> 1. Who will help me when things go wrong? (tech support)

This is the one that is killing me. You should not need any help, you know Linux
and you know how to read the errors and compile from source. Besides your
knowledge, we are a Linux Users Group, we should know this stuff.

> 2. How easy is it to maintain?

The Corliss distro is easy to maintain, there are a few things to look out for
but those are mostly security related. Root cannot log into the box remotely,
users have to be added to the ssh-group to be allowed to ssh to the box,
etc,etc. Security is a good thing.

> 3. Will the OS be there for me in 5 years or so? (updates etc...)

I believe Linux will be around in 5 years.

> I'll use Ubuntu Dapper as an example.
>
> 1. It has 5 years of updates on the server
> 2. I get support from the Ubuntu forums, mailing list, IRC and AKLUG
> 3. To get updates I just type "sudo apt-get upgrade"

Now there is nothing like this for Corliss distro and the update process is
different than ubuntu but there is a process and it is easy. We should be able
to support ourselves at this point. When I need support for Nevaeh I use the
slack and LFS lists for answers, why? Because they are source based with no
wrapper scripts hiding the real tool from me.

>
> I'm sure the Corliss distro is stable and secure. However, after
> evaluating the situation I think the Corliss distribution is the wrong
> tool for the job.

How long did you evaluate the distro before you made your decision? Has every
distro that you have used been given the same amount of time as Nevaeh to
evaluate?

> That brings up another issue. Just because you
> know something about Linux does not mean you can maintain any Linux
> distribution. Try going from Suse or Debian to Slack. If you have never
> tried Slackware it'll be FUN! ;-)

 Let me say this, I have never used debian, except for one bad install but I did
configure the network on debian from cli. I knew how to do this because I don't
have any distro specific tools that I am reliant upon. The tools that are on
Nevaeh are on every Linux distro, why? Because they are the base tools that all
distros use, ever look at ifup/ifdown? Both are just wrappers for the same
program found on all Linux distros.

 When you use a helper script from a specific distro you lose the knowledge of
how it is really done. At that point, you are right, now you can't switch
easily between distros because you are used to the wrapper scripts for the
basic tools. I can move between distros because I have an understanding of the
base system, which is the same for all distros.

For example, the 'ifconfig' command works the same on all distros, even the
ones that have 'ifup/ifdown' wrappers for 'ifconfig'.

I do use Slack and it is very similar to Nevaeh, it is a source based distro.

To sum up and end this on my side, this is what I am hearing from the group and
it is a little disconcerting. The various distros have been adding their own
tools for doing the same thing that can be done from the CLI on every distro
out there. We need to get back to the basics so we can admin any linux box put
before us. I have found that since using Nevaeh, I am far more comfortable
sitting at the console of any linux distro.

And you are right Damien, maybe Nevaeh was not the best choice for the AKLUG OS
but it has brought to light how dumbed down we are becoming because of the
distro specific tools. We need to understand the base tools of Linux and how to
use them, then we can all move freely between distros. Some people might say,
"Well, that is so early '90's Linux, we now have applications to help us setup
our wireless networks and configure samba and nfs, why would we want to do it
the hard way?" And when you get to your new job and they have servers without
GUI's and a Linux OS that you are not familiar with, which tool do you use to
configure your VPN?

> Oh, how do I get a copy of the "Corliss distro"? I'd like to stick it on
> my test network and take it out for a spin. :-)

I don't know if Arthur really wants it released into the wild yet but I will see
if he minds us giving out an iso to the group. I don't see why he would'nt give
out the iso but for Art, giving out Nevaeh and letting others look at it is
akin to showing up to school with no clothes on. ;)

Jon
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Received on Sat Dec 30 12:03:15 2006