Subject: Re: ipcop and serial ports
jwadell@gci.net
Date: Mon Apr 28 2003 - 20:20:35 AKDT
Jim,
Are there any on-board serial ports? Might you be seeing them first, thus pushing your "new" ports down to 3 and 4? Just a thouhgt?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: aklug@aklug.org
Date: Monday, April 28, 2003 2:49 pm
Subject: aklug Digest V2 #102
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aklug Digest Sun, 27 Apr 2003 Volume: 02 Issue: 102
In This Issue:
Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army
Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army
Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army
Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army
Clustering (Was: Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army)
Re: ipcop and serial ports
RE: Clustering (Was: Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army)
Re: ipcop and serial ports
Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army
CRC Error
nmblookup
Re: CRC Error
Re: ipcop and serial ports
Re: Meeting reminder
Re: ipcop and serial ports
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 15:03:38 -0800
From: WarDriver <i-robot@gci.net>
Subject: Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army
I just happen to snatch those things up all the time. I use them mostly for firewalls/wireless access points. Believe it or not, slack9 runs pretty good on lower end systems, provided you have the disk space. (The 2.4.20 kernel is pretty fast on the p166 I'm on now...) Otherwise, you could build a cluster...
Adam
On Sun, 27 Apr 2003 12:56:26 -0800
Damien Hull <dhull@digitaloverload.net> wrote:
>
> I just started working for the Salvation Army. Part of my job is to fix
> computers that have been donated. Because these are low end systems we
> are the only group in town that can find a use for them. My plan was to
> turn them into Linux boxes of some kind.
>
> Here are some of the criteria I'm looking at
>
> 1. Minimum speed - I'm thinking P200
> 2. Distribution of Linux - maybe Debian but I'm also looking at mulinux
> 3. What will they be - Workstation, Firewall, etc...
> 4. Price
>
> If any of you have any ideas let me know. I haven't had a chance to play
> with any computers yet so I don't know what I'll be working with.As soon
> as I find out I'll let every one know.
>
> --
> Damien Hull
> Network Administrator
> www.digitaloverload.net
>
>
> ---------
> To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org>
> with 'unsubscribe' in the message body.
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 15:06:01 -0800
From: WarDriver <i-robot@gci.net>
Subject: Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army
btw- the website in your signiture looks good with Links webbrowser...
Adam
On Sun, 27 Apr 2003 12:56:26 -0800
Damien Hull <dhull@digitaloverload.net> wrote:
>
> I just started working for the Salvation Army. Part of my job is to fix
> computers that have been donated. Because these are low end systems we
> are the only group in town that can find a use for them. My plan was to
> turn them into Linux boxes of some kind.
>
> Here are some of the criteria I'm looking at
>
> 1. Minimum speed - I'm thinking P200
> 2. Distribution of Linux - maybe Debian but I'm also looking at mulinux
> 3. What will they be - Workstation, Firewall, etc...
> 4. Price
>
> If any of you have any ideas let me know. I haven't had a chance to play
> with any computers yet so I don't know what I'll be working with.As soon
> as I find out I'll let every one know.
>
> --
> Damien Hull
> Network Administrator
> www.digitaloverload.net
>
>
> ---------
> To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org>
> with 'unsubscribe' in the message body.
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:36:14 +0000 (UTC)
From: Jacob Gemmell <evilbob@sdf.lonestar.org>
Subject: Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army
On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, Damien Hull wrote:
> I just started working for the Salvation Army. Part of my job is to fix
> computers that have been donated. Because these are low end systems we
> are the only group in town that can find a use for them. My plan was to
> turn them into Linux boxes of some kind.
>
> Here are some of the criteria I'm looking at
>
> 1. Minimum speed - I'm thinking P200
> 2. Distribution of Linux - maybe Debian but I'm also looking at mulinux
> 3. What will they be - Workstation, Firewall, etc...
> 4. Price
>
> If any of you have any ideas let me know. I haven't had a chance to play
> with any computers yet so I don't know what I'll be working with.As soon
> as I find out I'll let every one know.
>
> --
> Damien Hull
> Network Administrator
> www.digitaloverload.net
>
Don't discount those other unix tupe OSe, like any of the BSDs. For low
end workstations you may even want to ditch X and use a menu based shell
like flash or pshell.
http://psydev.sourceforge.net/
http://www.netsoc.ucd.ie/flash/
-- evilbob@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.orgThere are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't.
------------------------------
Subject: ipcop and serial ports From: Jim Gribbin <jgribbin@alaska.net> Date: 27 Apr 2003 15:53:48 -0800
I am running the ipcop 1.3 (2.4.20 kernel) firewall on an old micron 166MHz mobo. I am using a pci hi-speed serial card to talk to my isdn modem. It insists on setting up the serial card as ttyS4 & ttyS5 even though the on-board serial ports are turned off and do not show in /proc/ioports.
This is a problem because ipcop's administration setup only gives me the choices of coms 1 - 4. To get it working, I have to manually edit its settings file and change the port to ttyS4 (com 5).
This wasn't a problen on ipcop 1.2 (2.2.x kernel) as it didn't do anything with this card and I just added a couple of line to rc.sysinit and was able to set the card up as ttyS2 & ttyS3. When I try to do this with 1.3, linux has already assigned the ports to ttyS4 and ttyS5 and won't let me change them.
I believe ipcop is based on redhat, or was. Can anybody give me any clues as to what actually sets up the serial ports or what I can edit to change this?
Jim Gribbin
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:13:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. M. Mason" <mac@orthanc.st.hmc.edu> Subject: Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army
Clustering not so good - network overhead means that lots of old machines clustered still won't keep up with one modern system....
Too bad, that. It would be fun.
~Mac~
On Wed, 28 May 2003, WarDriver wrote:
> > btw- the website in your signiture looks good with Links webbrowser... > > > Adam > > > > On Sun, 27 Apr 2003 12:56:26 -0800 > Damien Hull <dhull@digitaloverload.net> wrote: > > > > > I just started working for the Salvation Army. Part of my job is to fix > > computers that have been donated. Because these are low end systems we > > are the only group in town that can find a use for them. My plan was to > > turn them into Linux boxes of some kind. > > > > Here are some of the criteria I'm looking at > > > > 1. Minimum speed - I'm thinking P200 > > 2. Distribution of Linux - maybe Debian but I'm also looking at mulinux > > 3. What will they be - Workstation, Firewall, etc... > > 4. Price > > > > If any of you have any ideas let me know. I haven't had a chance to play > > with any computers yet so I don't know what I'll be working with.As soon > > as I find out I'll let every one know. > > > > -- > > Damien Hull > > Network Administrator > > www.digitaloverload.net > > > > > > --------- > > To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org> > > with 'unsubscribe' in the message body. > > > > --------- > To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org> > with 'unsubscribe' in the message body. > >
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:59:18 -0800 (AKDT) From: Mike Tibor <tibor@lib.uaa.alaska.edu> Subject: Clustering (Was: Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army)
On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, J. M. Mason wrote:
> > Clustering not so good - network overhead means that lots of old machines > clustered still won't keep up with one modern system....
I always thought that was highly dependant upon the work being performed (some requires frequent network traffic; some not). I've read about highly successful clusters that utilize idle Linux workstations connected via 10 Mbit ethernet.
Not that I have any experience with parallel processing clusters, but just from what I've read...
Mike -- Mike Tibor Univ. of Alaska Anchorage (907) 786-1001 voice Network Technician Consortium Library (907) 786-6050 fax tibor@lib.uaa.alaska.edu http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/~tibor/ http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/~tibor/pgpkey for PGP public key
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:14:44 -0800 (AKDT) From: Mike Tibor <tibor@lib.uaa.alaska.edu> Subject: Re: ipcop and serial ports
On 27 Apr 2003, Jim Gribbin wrote:
> > I am running the ipcop 1.3 (2.4.20 kernel) firewall on an old micron > 166MHz mobo. I am using a pci hi-speed serial card to talk to my isdn > modem. It insists on setting up the serial card as ttyS4 & ttyS5 even > though the on-board serial ports are turned off and do not show in > /proc/ioports.
Can you reassign (maybe via the card's bios, or possibly via jumpers) the IRQ and IO addresses so that they correspond to ttyS0 and ttyS1 (I think 0x3f8/irq4 and 0x2f8/irq3, but don't quote me on that).
Mike -- Mike Tibor Univ. of Alaska Anchorage (907) 786-1001 voice Network Technician Consortium Library (907) 786-6050 fax tibor@lib.uaa.alaska.edu http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/~tibor/ http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/~tibor/pgpkey for PGP public key
------------------------------
From: "Jan Zumwalt" <jwzumwalt@neatinfo.com> Subject: RE: Clustering (Was: Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:58:45 -0800
Clustering advantages are not realized unless the actual task is conducive to parallel processing. I once had the bench mark time for a single floating point addition problem on a Cray, it was horrible! But the execution time for a matrix divide was trivial... Obviously, matrix mathematics lends itself well to parallel processing. Many graphics and mathematical formula intensive programs can benefit from clustering - particle (fluid) dynamics being a dramatic case. Certainly, data search would be a good use.
The type of computing done by the average office computer will not benefit from clusters. For example, a word processor is basically a serial process and has a relatively small number of tasks that can be parallel. As a matter of fact, the administration of a cluster will probably make the word processor run slower on a 2ghz machines then a single 400mhz. To get real optimization for clustering, a custom program is always written and things such as the number of machines available will establish how portions of code are written.
JZ
-----Original Message----- From: aklug-bounce@aklug.org [mailto:aklug-bounce@aklug.org]On Behalf Of Mike Tibor Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 7:59 PM To: aklug@aklug.org Subject: Clustering (Was: Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army)
On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, J. M. Mason wrote:
> > Clustering not so good - network overhead means that lots of old machines > clustered still won't keep up with one modern system....
I always thought that was highly dependant upon the work being performed (some requires frequent network traffic; some not). I've read about highly successful clusters that utilize idle Linux workstations connected via 10 Mbit ethernet.
Not that I have any experience with parallel processing clusters, but just from what I've read...
Mike -- Mike Tibor Univ. of Alaska Anchorage (907) 786-1001 voice Network Technician Consortium Library (907) 786-6050 fax tibor@lib.uaa.alaska.edu http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/~tibor/ http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/~tibor/pgpkey for PGP public key
--------- To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org> with 'unsubscribe' in the message body.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: ipcop and serial ports From: Jim Gribbin <jgribbin@alaska.net> Date: 27 Apr 2003 21:43:07 -0800
Thanks Mike,
But the card has no bios that I can find nor jumpers.
The bios appears to assign port and irq resources based on which slot the card is in. Then linux detects the ports and irq, recognizes the these are 2 - serial ports and a parallel port, and assigns them to what it considers to be appropriate tty and lpt device assignments.
Maybe if someone could explain to me how ttyS04 during the boot becomes /dev/ttyS4 on the running system it would give me some clues on where to look.
Something in Linux itself seems to be detecting and setting up the card as it wasn't being setup under the 2.2 kernel. Something associated with the 2.4 kernel seems to be taking care of it for me and isn't doing what I want.
Jim Gribbin
On Sun, 2003-04-27 at 20:14, Mike Tibor wrote: > On 27 Apr 2003, Jim Gribbin wrote: > > > > > I am running the ipcop 1.3 (2.4.20 kernel) firewall on an old micron > > 166MHz mobo. I am using a pci hi-speed serial card to talk to my isdn > > modem. It insists on setting up the serial card as ttyS4 & ttyS5 even > > though the on-board serial ports are turned off and do not show in > > /proc/ioports. > > Can you reassign (maybe via the card's bios, or possibly via jumpers) the > IRQ and IO addresses so that they correspond to ttyS0 and ttyS1 (I think > 0x3f8/irq4 and 0x2f8/irq3, but don't quote me on that). > > Mike > -- > Mike Tibor Univ. of Alaska Anchorage (907) 786-1001 voice > Network Technician Consortium Library (907) 786-6050 fax > tibor@lib.uaa.alaska.edu http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/~tibor/ > http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/~tibor/pgpkey for PGP public key >
------------------------------
Subject: ipcop and serial ports From: Jim Gribbin <jgribbin@alaska.net> Date: 27 Apr 2003 22:26:57 -0800
I don't think I'm doing a good job at describing my serial port problem, so I'll try a little different tact.
I have a pci high speed port card with 2-serial & 1-parallel ports.
Under the 2.2 kernel, /proc/pci showed an unknown card mfg'd by Timedia in a particular slot with 3-ports and an irq. Apparently because the card was unknown, Linux did nothing with the ports and I could assign the ports using setserial's port option to whatever available /dev/ttySx were available.
Under the 2.4 kernel, Linux seems to know what the card is. /proc/pci now shows a multi-port card mfg'd by Timedia (I don't recall the exact wording, but the card is now known) with 2-serial ports and a parallel port. Because Linux now knows the card, it is assigning the ports for me. But I want them assigned elsewhere and Linux won't let me do it has them already assigned.
Clear as mud now? :-)
Jim Gribbin
------------------------------
From: bryan@ak.net Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:06:33 -0800 Subject: Re: ipcop and serial ports
On Sun, Apr 27, 2003 at 10:26:57PM -0800, Jim Gribbin <jgribbin@alaska.net> wrote: > > Under the 2.4 kernel, Linux seems to know what the card is. /proc/pci > now shows a multi-port card mfg'd by Timedia (I don't recall the exact > wording, but the card is now known) with 2-serial ports and a parallel > port. Because Linux now knows the card, it is assigning the ports for > me. But I want them assigned elsewhere and Linux won't let me do it has > them already assigned.
Hmm. So the kernel serial driver is not behaving the way you want. Perhaps you could pass serial options on the kernel command line, or load the serial driver as a module with the options you want.
As for the specific settings to use, I can't help you there.
-- Bryan Medsker bryan@ak.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:33:12 -0800 From: James Zuelow <e5z8652@zuelow.net> Subject: Re: linux boxes at Salvation Army
On Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:36:14 +0000 (UTC) "Jacob Gemmell" <evilbob@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
> > On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, Damien Hull wrote: > > I just started working for the Salvation Army. Part of my job is to fix > > computers that have been donated. Because these are low end systems we > > are the only group in town that can find a use for them. My plan was to > > turn them into Linux boxes of some kind. > > > > Here are some of the criteria I'm looking at > > > > 1. Minimum speed - I'm thinking P200 > > 2. Distribution of Linux - maybe Debian but I'm also looking at mulinux > > 3. What will they be - Workstation, Firewall, etc... > > 4. Price (snip...) > > Don't discount those other unix tupe OSe, like any of the BSDs. For low > end workstations you may even want to ditch X and use a menu based shell > like flash or pshell. > > http://psydev.sourceforge.net/ > http://www.netsoc.ucd.ie/flash/ >
Yup. For a transparent bridging firewall you could use OpenBSD on a 133 with a 540MB hard drive, with a couple hundred megs left over for logs. That box could easily keep up with a cable modem or DSL. Of course if you're not familiar with BSD, then Debian has a similar footprint.
Keep an open mind with your minimum equipment specs. My firewall at home (Debian) has a 345MB hard drive and is currently running an 83MHz Pentium Overdrive. I haven't noticed any improvement from the 486/33 it replaced. Given I'm on the basic cable modem package so it only has to keep up with a 384kb/s load, but when I download .iso files or do an apt-get update I regularly max the connection. Older machines also make good "jet direct" cards for older printers that don't do networking, remote X terminals (we demoed some P90s down here), etc. Now that doesn't mean you need to accept *junk*, but a clean, well working and unstripped P120 or P133 still has a lot of life in it.
Cheers,
James
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:50:50 -0800 From: Adam Elkins <i-robot@gci.net> Subject: CRC Error
I'm getting a "crc error" when the kernel (From any bootable disk, slack9, redhat8...) tried to load. Is this a Memory issue? Oh yeah, it's a Compaq Presario 1256 Laptop
Adam
------------------------------
Subject: Meeting reminder From: Greg Madden <pabi@gci.net> Date: 28 Apr 2003 10:20:37 -0800
Just in case, a reider of the AKLUG meeting at the BP Energy Center on Thursday, May 1st.. coming up soon :) The agenda hasn't recieved any additional comments. I have added one more item for consideration.
http://alaska.bp.com/alaska/bpenergycenter/docs/EC_map.pdf
Proposed Agenda: 1. Election,. any candidates out there ? 2. AKLUG domain registration. Checkout the aklug-ops list for CoreComs requirements in this matter. 3. AKLUG Webmaster 4. AKLUG server 5. ?
-- Greg Madden Precision Air Balance, Inc. Phone: 907-276-0461 email: pabi@gci.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:23:06 -0800 From: "Tim Jordan, Network Services" <Timothy_Jordan@labor.state.ak.us> Subject: nmblookup
I have an issue understanding why- when I do a query like:
nmblookup dol-jnu-wts5
The output shows that it is broadcasting to the local subnet.
I thought nmblookup uses WINS? Perhaps I need to adjust a config file?
Note: When I run wbinfo -I or -N it resolves properly. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding how nmblookup should resolve?
Tim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:57:43 -0800 From: Jim Gribbin <jewelrysupplier@gci.net> Subject: Re: CRC Error
It could also be a drive issue. I have run across reports where some older CD ROM drive don't like the higher speed CD-R's. Something about dealing with the substrates on the new high-speed CD-Rs and the power of the laser in the drive. You might want to clean the drive and see if that makes a difference.
Jim Gribbin
On Mon, 2003-04-28 at 10:50, Adam Elkins wrote: > I'm getting a "crc error" when the kernel (From any bootable disk, slack9, redhat8...) tried to load. Is this a Memory issue? > Oh yeah, it's a Compaq Presario 1256 Laptop > > Adam > > --------- > To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org> > with 'unsubscribe' in the message body. >
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:14:31 -0800 From: Fielder George Dowding <fgdowding@iceworm-enterprises.net> Subject: Re: ipcop and serial ports
Greetings Jim and all,
Under the 2.4 kernel, serial port setup is handled in a new and better way, really :)
Look in the file /etc/serial.conf
Read the man page for setserial
You will probably have to edit serial.conf to reflect the desired ttyS<n>, IRQ, and I/O address. The card you are talking about may be listed in serial.conf. In any case, look for the stanzas that set the ports to the ones you are getting and edit them to the ones you want.
fgd.
On 27 Apr 2003 22:26:57 -0800 Jim Gribbin <jgribbin@alaska.net> wrote:
> > I don't think I'm doing a good job at describing my serial port > problem, so I'll try a little different tact. > > I have a pci high speed port card with 2-serial & 1-parallel > ports. > > Under the 2.2 kernel, /proc/pci showed an unknown card mfg'd by > Timedia in a particular slot with 3-ports and an irq. Apparently > because the card was unknown, Linux did nothing with the ports and > I could assign the ports using setserial's port option to whatever > available /dev/ttySx were available. > > Under the 2.4 kernel, Linux seems to know what the card is. > /proc/pci now shows a multi-port card mfg'd by Timedia (I don't > recall the exact wording, but the card is now known) with 2-serial > ports and a parallel port. Because Linux now knows the card, it is > assigning the ports for me. But I want them assigned elsewhere and > Linux won't let me do it has them already assigned. > > Clear as mud now? :-) > > Jim Gribbin > > > > --------- > To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org> > with 'unsubscribe' in the message body. > > >
-- Fielder George Dowding, Chief Iceworm dba Iceworm Enterprises, Anchorage, Alaska Since 1976 - Over 25 Years of Service.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:06:03 -0800 From: enderak@gci.net Subject: Re: Meeting reminder
Is there a particular room number or something at the Energy Center where the meeting is going to be?
Justin
----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Madden <pabi@gci.net> Date: Monday, April 28, 2003 10:20 am Subject: Meeting reminder
> > Just in case, a reider of the AKLUG meeting at the BP Energy > Center on > Thursday, May 1st.. coming up soon :) The agenda hasn't recieved any > additional comments. I have added one more item for consideration. > > http://alaska.bp.com/alaska/bpenergycenter/docs/EC_map.pdf > > > Proposed Agenda: > 1. Election,. any candidates out there ? > 2. AKLUG domain registration. Checkout the aklug-ops list for CoreComs > requirements in this matter. > 3. AKLUG Webmaster > 4. AKLUG server > 5. ? > > > -- > Greg Madden > Precision Air Balance, Inc. > Phone: 907-276-0461 > email: pabi@gci.net > > > --------- > To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org> > with 'unsubscribe' in the message body. > >
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:57:19 -0800 From: Jim Gribbin <jewelrysupplier@gci.net> Subject: Re: ipcop and serial ports
Nice try, but ipcop doesn't have a serial.conf. At least not in /etc. I'm still looking to see if I can find it somewhere else as ipcop seems to have moved or hidden some of scripts for security reasons.
I may take a shot at just creating one and see if it uses it.
Jim Gribbin
On Mon, 2003-04-28 at 11:14, Fielder George Dowding wrote: > Greetings Jim and all, > > Under the 2.4 kernel, serial port setup is handled in a new and > better way, really :) > > Look in the file /etc/serial.conf > > Read the man page for setserial > > You will probably have to edit serial.conf to reflect the desired > ttyS<n>, IRQ, and I/O address. The card you are talking about may be > listed in serial.conf. In any case, look for the stanzas that set > the ports to the ones you are getting and edit them to the ones you > want. > > fgd. > > On 27 Apr 2003 22:26:57 -0800 > Jim Gribbin <jgribbin@alaska.net> wrote: > > > > > I don't think I'm doing a good job at describing my serial port > > problem, so I'll try a little different tact. > > > > I have a pci high speed port card with 2-serial & 1-parallel > > ports. > > > > Under the 2.2 kernel, /proc/pci showed an unknown card mfg'd by > > Timedia in a particular slot with 3-ports and an irq. Apparently > > because the card was unknown, Linux did nothing with the ports and > > I could assign the ports using setserial's port option to whatever > > available /dev/ttySx were available. > > > > Under the 2.4 kernel, Linux seems to know what the card is. > > /proc/pci now shows a multi-port card mfg'd by Timedia (I don't > > recall the exact wording, but the card is now known) with 2-serial > > ports and a parallel port. Because Linux now knows the card, it is > > assigning the ports for me. But I want them assigned elsewhere and > > Linux won't let me do it has them already assigned. > > > > Clear as mud now? :-) > > > > Jim Gribbin > > > > > > > > --------- > > To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org> > > with 'unsubscribe' in the message body. > > > > > > >
------------------------------
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2a23 : Mon Apr 28 2003 - 20:20:39 AKDT