[aklug] Re: Rebasing the discussion

"Is this something the group is willing to do?"

It's something the new user should be willing to do, before ever potentially expecting a group to do it for them.

If you see Tux in the road, kill him!
Eat your fish in the shadows, not in the streets!
A penguin will see Tux when he is ready.

http://www.google.com/linux?hl=en&q=

2 cents,
--eddie

> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:41:28 +0000
> From: damien@linuxninjas.tv
> To: acorliss@nevaeh-linux.org
> CC: aklug@aklug.org
> Subject: [aklug] Re: Rebasing the discussion
>
> I agree with most of this. However, I still think we should be open to all =
> users. This doesn't mean I want to feed them some info and send them on the=
> re way. We need to give them some level of training. That brings me to my s=
> econd issue.=20
>
> I don't believe AKLUG is organized or professional enough to give any real =
> training. Not yet anyway. I'm going through computer training at Charter Co=
> llege. That's serious training. I don't think we need to go that far. I do =
> believe that a formal approach to Linux training would help a lot. That tak=
> es time, effort and planning.
>
> Is this something the group is willing to do?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arthur Corliss" <acorliss@nevaeh-linux.org>
> To: aklug@aklug.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:18:30 AM GMT -09:00 Alaska
> Subject: [aklug] Rebasing the discussion
>
> Greetings:
>
> We've definitely gone off on a hell of a tangent on this discussion, and
> from some of the responses I fear people may misinterpret my position. =C2=
> =A0So,
> I'd like a chance to refocus the discussion on the core question, originall=
> y
> presented by Jon: =C2=A0what is our goal?
>
> Before answering that I would take a step back further and ask who (AKLUG)
> are we? =C2=A0The obvious answer is that we're a Linux advocacy group. =C2=
> =A0At its
> most shallow definition that means we're just a local PR outfit. =C2=A0At a
> deeper level, though, I think it was intended that we be part of the Linux
> and OSS community.
>
> I don't think anyone here would deny that we are or should be part of the
> "community" and community-minded. =C2=A0But I'm not sure everyone here has
> understood the implications.
>
> Let's go back a moment to Eric Raymond's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar".
> Linux, according to his analogy, is the bazaar model. =C2=A0A lot of OSS so=
> ftware
> is also developed in the bazaar model. =C2=A0The bazaar is that chaotic mar=
> ket
> place with a hundred stalls, with vendors buying and selling, sometimes
> combining the wares of other stalls into new wares in their stall. =C2=A0It=
> 's a
> collaborative environment where the product is dynamically shaped by both
> buyers and sellers, each according to their whims.
>
> Now, it is definitely possible for an individual to come into the bazaar,
> purchase something from a stall, and go home. =C2=A0That's a prototypical
> consumer, not a member of the bazaar community. =C2=A0Shopping at Walmart i=
> n the
> Valley makes me no more a member of that community than shopping here in
> Anchorage does. =C2=A0Consumption is a one-way relationship, a unidirection=
> al
> transaction. =C2=A0Relationships aren't built that way, nor does any meanin=
> gful
> collaboration.
>
> And that's the point of the bazaar. =C2=A0Some of us may think we're member=
> s of
> the Linux/OSS community merely because we use it. =C2=A0But I don't think t=
> hat's
> the case. =C2=A0Users are consumers. =C2=A0You may tell your friends about =
> the great
> product that you purchased at the bazaar, but that doesn't make you a membe=
> r
> of that bazaar, either. =C2=A0In order to be a member of the community you =
> need
> to contribute, establish and nourish relationships, participate in the
> development of the product.
>
> Take Damien's desires, for example. =C2=A0The contribution and maintenance =
> of
> documentation is a valid participation in the bazaar. =C2=A0So is beta-test=
> ing
> new versions of your favorite app/distro and providing feedback to the
> developers. =C2=A0And so is slinging and releasing code.
>
> Jon, he's just an angry bald guy. =C2=A0But, so am I, so I can sympathize. =
> =C2=A0;-)
>
> So, out of this whole "RTFM =3D=3D Elitism" debate we've been having my con=
> cerns
> over the direction of this group has solidified somewhat. =C2=A0If AKLUG is=
> truly
> to be a community participant, and not just a consumer of the community
> product, we cannot have as our primary focus the recruitment of more users.
> Users should be welcome, certainly, but we have limited resources, limited
> volunteer hours, and limited effort being put into this group. =C2=A0We nee=
> d to
> create an enticing environment for producers, builders, *participants*. =C2=
> =A0And
> the prerequisite to that is to develop within ourselves that level of
> participation and, when others have their curiosity piqued, provide
> opportunities for newcomers to participate as well.
>
> Something just occurred to me: =C2=A0say Damien does write the manual, and =
> then
> we tell the newbies to read it -- does that make all of you elitists as
> well? =C2=A0;-)
>
> Anyway, I'd like to see a concerted effort within the group to not breed
> mere Linux consumerism, but more stalls set up in the bazaar. =C2=A0Thinkin=
> g that
> doing the former will be the gateway drug to the latter is extremely
> optimistic in my mind, especially when we're not demonstrating the bazaar
> ourselves. =C2=A0If we fail to do this we'll only end up with an extraordin=
> arily
> large, needy, and angry mob in the middle of the plaza, with perhaps only
> three stalls to serve them all.
>
> Linux and OSS will not be sustained that way. =C2=A0Just my $0.10.
>
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0--Arthur Corliss
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0Live Free or D=
> ie
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> --=20
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Received on Thu Sep 17 11:02:17 2009