[aklug] Re: Basic Linux information

But Arthur, I agree with you almost entirely! And have sat kids down
with pieces-lol. The point I was trying to make vis-a-vis the netbooks
is just as you noted, it is our learned prejudices that guide our
behavior, and the path to wider usage of Linux (as opposed to broader
technological know how) is to put the product in play as it were.

I write wiki based docs for an open software web app. When I speak of
documentation I am not limiting my refernce to a readme or file
headnotes, but the task is daunting as the target is ever moving and
so many find it easier to demand that I provide a private recitation ;)

If the focus here is to engender RTRAkLinux, then maybe you want to
adopt an image, create static docs to support same, etc. If the
purpose is to simply increase Linux users, go for the kids. If the
purpose is to promote rational exploration and use of an open OS, then
perhaps .......

On Sep 16, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Arthur Corliss <acorliss@nevaeh-
linux.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009, larry collier wrote:
>
>> Arthur, when you 'read the manual' you understand what it means.
>> When I
>> read the manual, mostly, I get the feeling it's written in some
>> foreign
>> language. I've been doing this a long time, and yes I'm basically a
>> user. I'm neither geek nor hacker and aspire to neither one. But
>> I'm
>> way above average mentally and have a hell of a time understanding
>> most
>> of the man pages out there.
>>
>> Todays linux is not the one you started with. I started with rh4.1.
>> It fit on one CD and didn't fill that. The latest from rh, fills a
>> dvd
>> and is missing a lot of stuff a home user will want. There is a
>> huge
>> difference between starting out back then and starting now.
>>
>> Wanting a new user to read the manual, which isn't comprehensible
>> until
>> you've read about a thousand of them will surely stop just about
>> all new
>> users. Without new users linux is doomed. I'd rather have
>> something
>> they can use right away because, BS aside, for most people Windows
>> works
>> out of the box tolerably well. And of course most people never
>> install it.
>>
>> We have something better, but our attitude (and totally crap
>> documentation) will doom it.
>
> While I'm diametrically opposed to Jon's stance, he did ask the right
> question: what is our goal? Personally, my goal would be to
> engender a
> culture where people are encouraged to take things apart, to learn the
> internals, and to build new stuff based on them. In my mind,
> nothing less
> will ensure that Linux continues to flourish rather than stagnate
> and die.
>
> If, on the other hand, our goal is just to "package" stuff up for a
> populace
> that largely doesn't give a damn how it works or what the potential
> for
> growth is, then you'd be right. We should be a user-oriented group,
> but
> with the clear expectation that what we're using *will* become
> obsolete and
> stagnant. And we should accept that many of our users will
> ultimately end
> up on OSX anyway. Because without a profit motive, there's no
> incentive to
> fully document, round out functionality, clean up presentation, etc.
>
> I fully admit, I'm part of the problem. I sling code, but like most
> open
> source developers, I do it for myself. That means that as soon as
> it works
> the way I want it to, I'm done. And user documentation is an
> afterthought.
> I write man pages, but they're intended to be *references*, not
> tutorials.
>
> What frustrates me, however, is how insistent many so-called geeks
> are in
> refusing to understand the problem. I first installed Slackware in
> '95 off
> of floppies. Yes, there's a lot more software in today's distros,
> but the
> core operating principles of UNIX software is still there. Somehow, I
> manage to get by being able to extrapolate from the fundamentals how
> the new
> stuff should work. I'm not always right, but I'm still functionally
> literate and effective.
>
> And that's the whole point: if we were more concerned about
> learning core
> computing architecture we'd be much less concerned about specific
> applications. You can extrapolate with a more than fair amount of
> accuracy
> just from that.
>
> And this is where I differ with Marc. He thinks we just need to put
> Linux
> into the hands of kids. If we really want these kids to learn
> *technology*,
> and not little applications, then we put a Heath Kit CPM computer in
> front
> of them -- in the original parts baggies -- and make them solder it
> together
> from scratch. If we gave the kids Ubuntu instead, we'd just have
> the same
> class of Windows users that we have now, only with an anti-MS slant.
>
> There's a reason why I keep my old Et3400 microcomputer breadboard
> trainer
> around. If any of my offspring show any interest in computing as a
> career,
> they're going to learn the old way, from the bottom up.
>
> --Arthur Corliss
> Live Free or Die
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Received on Wed Sep 16 15:53:53 2009