[aklug] Re: What certifications should one have?

Lots of great suggestions here. It seems to me that a lot of people run awa=
y from Cisco certs and anything that requires thinking. I'm hoping that a L=
inux and Cisco cert combination gives me an advantage over the competition.=
=20

I'M NOT MICROSOFT BASHING
I would agree that the MS Certs are not worth much. I took the XP Cert so I=
 could graduate from Charter College. They offered a free boot camp. We wen=
t over a set of test questions that were right off the exam it self. Jest m=
emorize the questions and you'll do fine. I was lucky. Every question I got=
 was one I had seen before. I got 100%!

Should you hire me to fix ur XP system? If you don't mind me reinstalling e=
verything. That's about all I can do. Don't spend enough time using XP. I s=
till think the MS Certs are good for getting you in the door.=20

Setting up a Windows server or workstation requires some skills. If you can=
 do that good for you. However, It's been my experience that most MS people=
 don't know anything about networks.=20

1. Company can't send email from outside the office so they pay for a secon=
d smtp service.=20
2. Second DNS server ready to be booted if the Main one goes down.
3. Guy who wants to use a tape library as a shelf.
4. Getting called in by a an MCSE guy who can't figure out why a client doe=
sn't have Internet service.=20

Why?=20

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kurt Brendgard" <brendgard@yahoo.com>
To: aklug@aklug.org
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 8:48:03 AM GMT -09:00 Alaska
Subject: [aklug] Re: What certifications should one have?

--- On Sun, 5/3/09, Arthur Corliss <acorliss@nevaeh-linux.org> wrote:

> From: Arthur Corliss <acorliss@nevaeh-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [aklug] Re: What certifications should one have?
> To: "Kurt Brendgard" <brendgard@yahoo.com>
> Cc: aklug@aklug.org
> Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 12:25 AM
> On Sat, 2 May 2009, Kurt Brendgard
> wrote:
>=3D20
> >=3D20
> > I would not be so hasty to dismiss the Microsoft certs
> in this economy. As much as I hate the idea, there are very
> few IT shops(internal or outsourced) that only deal with
> Linux. Everybody else almost always wants you to know
> something about Windows. They are good to have, and there is
> usually more money to be made in working on Windows than on
> Linux, because there are more boxes with it and it needs
> more maintanence. This usually tends to mean more job
> openings for people who are Microsft certified as apposed to
> Linux certified only. I don't always like reality, but
> reality is what it is.
>=3D20
> While I know I'm not the prototypical employer when it
> comes to hiring, I
> don't believe my experience is unique.=3DA0 In short,
> Microsoft certifications
> are worthless.=3DA0 The fact is that Microsoft, in their
> zeal to make in another
> cash cow, turned certification into a paper mill.=3DA0
> I've had a endless number
> of MS-certified jackasses interview for my positions and it
> takes little
> time to disqualify them.=3DA0 Prospects with the other
> certs typically fare much
> better.
>=3D20
> End sum:=3DA0 if the company you're trying to join has the
> hiring and selection
> process controlled entirely by HR folks (i.e., people
> unqualified to
> evaluate your technical capabilities) MS certs may have
> some value.=3DA0 If the
> selection process is heavily driven by the tech folks
> themselves you're not
> likely to get much respect just on the basis of those
> certs, with the
> possible exception of those pure Microsoft shops.=3DA0 And
> you won't find pure
> Microsoft shops in the enterprise arena.
>=3D20
> I've talked to several people who are on this list that
> have MS certs, and they've almost unanimously agree that
> those certs are by far the easiest to get.=3DA0 And they
> know far too many idiots with those certs that shouldn't be
> employed.
>=3D20
> Okay, I lied.=3DA0 There was nothing short about that.
>=3D20

I agree with you. MS certs are pretty much worthless. My suggestion for get=
=3D
ting them is not for the knowlege that goes with them, but for just that: t=
=3D
he fact that it is many times required by the HR dept in order to gain an i=
=3D
nterview. Once you have your foot in the door, it's up to you to differieni=
=3D
ate yourself from the crowd as MS certs are widely known to be pretty much =
=3D
worthless by any IT dept. They can serve the purpose of getting past the HR=
=3D
=C2=A0dept screeners though.

> > I would also recomend getting a security cert of some
> kind. You can start with the entry level such as Comptia's
> Security+ and work your way into something more advanced. A
> good way to go with this is the Cisco Security route if
> you're looking to go network admin over sys admin. It is not
> the most widely recognised or asked for though. That would
> probably fall to CISSP. Which one you aim for in the long
> run might be dictated by what direction your career is
> headed.
>=3D20
> I might suggest that even the enterprising sysadmin look at
> these.=3DA0 Too many
> sysadmins know nothing about the network they're attached
> to and serve.
> That doesn't apply to people here (you're obviously on this
> list because you
> have a natural geek inclination to begin with), but I'd
> wager that the

Who? Lil ol me?? :> The lab attendent where I went and got what little trai=
=3D
ning I have, called me the terminal hacker heheheheheheh

> majority of the IT work force in this nation are clock
> punchers, not truely
> inquisitive and curious geeks.
>=3D20
> Getting network certs can definitely be a
> differentiator.=3DA0 And, of course,
> I'm speaking from the hiring perspective.=3DA0 I'm a
> complete cert-less
> hypocrite, myself.=3DA0 I was lucky to get where I am
> without them, but I can
> definitely see how they would have made things
> easier.=3DA0 But that presumes
> that I had a career plan (I didn't), and had the
> forethought to get some
> formal training in all this stuff (again, I didn't).=3DA0
> I obviously have to
> learn things the hard way.=3DA0 Knowing that, you'd think
> my life would have
> gotten easier by now.=3DA0 <G>
>=3D20

Now there is an area I plumb forgot to mention, networking certs like Netwo=
=3D
rk+ can be a very good one to get. If you're a network admin you might want=
=3D
=C2=A0to consider a Server+ cert as well to show you know something about t=
hat.

> I admit it, I'm a little slow in areas...
>=3D20

If you're a little slow, I must be in reverse :p

> > I would also recomend learning something about a
> database and getting a certification in it. MySQL offers
> one. MS SQL is probably one that has the biggest growth rate
> right now, but I have not seen the numbers lately so if I'm
> wrong, somebody point it out please.(And point me to
> whatever source you got it from please). It might also help
> demonstrating to a prospective employer that you know
> something about Microsoft products. One of the better paying
> databases in previous history is Oracle. If you can show you
> are adept at one, sometimes you can get hired on with the
> idea that you can easily and quickly come up to speed on
> another SQL database than the one certified for.
>=3D20
> There's some truth to this, in as much most databases
> strive for some level
> of ANSI SQL compliance, and to a lesser extent, ACID
> compliance.=3DA0 That said,
> that doesn't necessarily mean you can get a job as an
> Oracle DBA with MS SQL
> certs.=3DA0 Going the other way (an Oracle cert going for
> a MS SQL DBA job) is
> more doable.=3DA0 The trick is that while many databases
> share a lot of the same
> functionality, once you go past SQL it's all proprietary
> from there.
> PL/SQL knowledge, etc., will help with theoretical
> knowledge, but offer
> little specifics that apply to another RDBMS.=3DA0 And
> trickier still is the
> duties of an actual DBA which are more about tuning,
> hardware architecture,
> and so on, which are very much specific to each vendor.
>=3D20

Very true. I wasn't meaning it as something to rely on, just that it does s=
=3D
how raw talent, something *some* hiring staff look for. If you're fortunate=
=3D
=C2=A0enough to work for this kind of employer, dig a foxhole, moat. chain =
yours=3D
elf to the desk, etc, unless God himself says not to. These can be very goo=
=3D
d companies to work for.

> > Keep in mind also that while specializing in something
> helps you to do a good job at it, more and more employers,
> especialy in this financial downturn, are looking for people
> with a wider range of skills. They might you to primarily
> work on a mail server, but your knowing a bit about how to
> make that brand of mail server work better with a competing
> brand of domain server might look more apealing than the
> next person who only knows that specific mail server.
>=3D20
> Very true.=3DA0 As Lazarus Long said:=3DA0
> "Specialization is for insects."=3DA0 We're
> human, we should be more well rounded than that.=3DA0 And
> a lot of employers do
> look for that.
>=3D20
> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 --Arthur Corliss
> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 =3DA0 Live Free or Die
>=3D20

But Arthur touched on a point that is very important. Certs are worthess af=
=3D
ter the point where you get an interview. Not just MS certs either, all of =
=3D
them. When you need to bring up a downed server, a cert only shows you were=
=3D
=C2=A0able to pass a test, it doesn't help bring it back up. The knowlege t=
hat (=3D
hopefully) still resides in your head is what employers will want to see, a=
=3D
nd that coming out through your hands by means of working on that server, g=
=3D
etting it back up. Certs might be instramental in getting your foot in the =
=3D
door, or in getting raises or promotions afterwards, but not much more. Don=
=3D
't depend on them.=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
---------
To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org>
with 'unsubscribe' in the message body.

--=20
Damien Hull
Linux Ninja
Open Source Assassin

http://linuxninjas.tv
http://elite.linuxninjas.tv
http://www.digital-overload.net

---------
To unsubscribe, send email to <aklug-request@aklug.org>
with 'unsubscribe' in the message body.
Received on Sun May 3 11:04:52 2009