Re: linux at south anchorage high

Damien Hull wrote:
> The guys at the district have it all wrong. You need to get rid of the
> Windows server. That's where all your problems are.
I can second that - KCI had problems with non-Windows work stations
starting with the install of the new 2k3 server. It turns out that
Win2k3 does not play nice with anything other than Windows. I found a
work around for Linux work stations - you are on your own for working it
out for Macs as I do not know enough about Macs to know if there is a
work around for Macs connected to a Win2k3 server. This Windows not
playing nice with anything besides the latest versions of Windows is an
old story - and the official fix from MS is alway the same - you gota -
get everything to use the latest version of Windows and ditch everything
not Windows and all will be well (except for your wallet).

As for logging Macs into a Linux server - Macs use Samba client to talk
to Windows Servers - and I had at one time in the past used Samba
clients on Linux to log into a Samba server on Linux. This should work
the same for Macs. As for running Linux on a Mac Xserver - I know that
SuSE has server software for the Power PC stuff if the Xserver is using
the new dual core Intel cpu then there are lots of choices for good
server software.

A good test to see if it is the Win2k3 server build a Linux box to
replace it on a short term basis and see if the problems disappear, as I
suspect they will - then all you would have to do is replace the Win2k3
on the server(s) in question with any good version of Linux and maybe
use Novell's eDirectory services to replace the the functionality of
Active Directory. Though LDAP may serve quit well as I do not know how
much of Active Directory is used.

The only other solution is to ditch all the Macs and replace them with
PC running XP - and purchase all all the applications to rebuild those
machines to usability. Because if it is a problem with Win2k3 you can
bet that if you are using a work around to get Macs to be happy with
Win2k3 - at regular intervals this problem will revisit you again and
again remember that MS has no reason to make Win2k3 work better with
Macs and Apple may not have the resources to keep up with MS whimsies.

One place you might want to look for more information about Linux is
schools is school districts in Indiana - there are many districts there
now using mostly Linux and supplying one computer for each student in
school - it has been done in a lot of schools last year (22,000 students
involved) and the project was expanded this year. From what I understand
SuSE, Fedora, and Linspire distros have all been used by different
school districts in Indiana. It should not be too hard to make contact
with the people doing the work there and find out what problems they
have faced and the solutions they have found. At least some of those
districts have left older Macs and Windows computers in the hands of
teachers and office workers and so must also have faced the problem of
mix OSes the same net work.

Now on to what I can tell you about Terminal Servers.
The city of Largo Fl. went with LISP server for the entire city -
something like 500 workstations - they used several LISP servers. The
servers did cost them far more than the amount that would have been
needed for a couple of file servers. However, the much lower cost of the
thin client workstations more than made up the difference - so that the
city experienced a major net savings - their IT department runs only
about half of what other cities of similar size pay for their IT
departments. People barely notice when a server is take off line for
what ever reason, because with "distributed computing" when ever some
one logs in their client is connected to the least busy server. So what
happens is that the remaining servers are just a little busier - and a
bit slower to respond until the down server is brought back on line.
And because the thin client is just a connection that any other client
can manage when a workstation fails all that has to be done is plug in
another client and the person can resume right where they left off or
even in an emergency use any other client near by to complete the job
they were working on.

Remember the government laptop that was stolen with thousands of
veteran's Ids on it because some one wanted to do some work from home.
Has the VA been using a terminal server system the laptop wound not have
had the ID data on it.

Further in conditions where constant reimaging of hard drives is
required on a regular basis the IT staff can save great deal of time.

r

>
>
> Blake Eggemeyer wrote:
>> the tech guy from south met with the district guys and they okeyed
the linux
>> server, but these are some requirements
>> There are really three basic questions. What distros support
Xserve/XRAID
>> hardware? What is the process for binding that distro to AD (gui or
not)?
>> What version of Samba runs on the distro and will it respect the AD
bind for
>> authentication?
>> our raid array is an Apple Xserve box
>> the tech guy, as i have called him, is Mr Tryon, and he may be coming by
>> this fridays meeting
>>
>>
>> On 9/12/06, Damien Hull <dhull@digitaloverload.net> wrote:
>>
>>> You could put Linux on the server. However, getting both Mac and PC
>>> workstations to log into the server might be a problem. Can it be done?
>>> People say it can. When I looked into it I had a hard time finding any
>>> documentation that explained how this was done.
>>>
>>> Apple is good at creating things that are simple. Take the Windows
>>> server out back. Put Bills picture on it and burn it in effigy ( if you
>>> feel like it you can dance around like they do at burning man ;-) ).
>>> Then make the Mac server do everything. It will allow both Windows and
>>> Mac systems to log in and access files.
>>>
>>> All this should be doable on a Linux system once the new version of
>>> samba comes out. It is supposed to have LDAP built in.
>>>
>>> Blake Eggemeyer wrote:
>>>
>>>> ps, the other schools are working, just the normal hiccups. south is
>>>> suposed to be the test case for the new model(only diffeance is the
>>>> version of software on the Mac server and a few other small changes).
>>>>
>>>> On 9/12/06, *Blake Eggemeyer* <i.linwin@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:i.linwin@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 1)it recently broke, no fix in sight
>>>> 2)the pcs cant login, if more than a few try to then the server
>>>> starts thrashing, the macs work unless the pcs have crashed the
>>>>
>>> server
>>>
>>>> 3)windows XP pro on the PCs, the new Mac OS, and windows 2003
>>>> server edition on the Pc server
>>>>
>>>> thin client makes sence to me, there just no chance i can get them
>>>> to want to change the hardware, we have ~200 Dells and ~200 Macs,
>>>> almost new. the server wouldnt handle the thin client system so
>>>> that would also have to go.
>>>> one idea thats being considered is makeing the shcools single
>>>> platform by swaping all the macs in one school for all the PCs in
>>>> another. the district has to have both Pcs and Macs because the
>>>> school cant just advertise for one or the other
>>>>
>>>> is it practical to put linux on the server and leave the rest as
>>>> it is? or is that just counter productive?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/12/06, *Damien Hull* < dhull@digitaloverload.net
>>>> <mailto:dhull@digitaloverload.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have a few questions...
>>>>
>>>> 1. Is the current model working
>>>> 2. If not what's broken
>>>> 3. What Operating systems are used
>>>>
>>>> In the district model you have workstations that login over
>>>> the network
>>>> to a server. If the server is off-line you should be able to
>>>> login but
>>>> you wont have access to your files. What makes the district
>>>> model more
>>>> complex is that they have Mac and Windows on the same network.
>>>> Students
>>>> should be able to access their files from both Mac and Windows.
>>>>
>>>> I have herd that it works but I've never seen it in action.
>>>> What I've
>>>> seen are Windows workstations that kind of work and Mac's that
>>>> don't
>>>> talk to the server at all. My take on the district model is
>>>> that it's
>>>> overly complex and it doesn't work very well. The network I
>>>> had to deal
>>>> with was broken most of the time.
>>>>
>>>> If your schools network is broken most of the time then the
>>>> district
>>>> needs to change their model. Through out what doesn't work and
>>>> replace
>>>> it with something that does.
>>>>
>>>> A thin client setup would lower the total cost of ownership.
>>>> It could
>>>> also increase reliability. Which I'm assuming the district
>>>>
>>> wants?
>>>
>>>> Some of these issues are three or four years old. You would
>>>> think they
>>>> would have them fixed by now.
>>>>
>>>> Blake Eggemeyer wrote:
>>>> > unfortunately thin cliet isnt an option because we need to
>>>> stick to the
>>>> > district model and all(if the server isnt working we need to
>>>> be able to keep
>>>> > functioning). would leaving the workstations mostly as they
>>>> are and changing
>>>> > the server to linux be a viable option?
>>>> > On 9/12/06, Damien Hull < dhull@digitaloverload.net
>>>> <mailto:dhull@digitaloverload.net>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> There is no need to push out a Linux image. You can do that
>>>> if you want
>>>> >> but if you go the thin client rout you don't need to.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> My thin clients don't have any software on them at all. No
>>>> OS! They boot
>>>> >> from the network and suck down a Linux OS. Once that part is
>>>> up and
>>>> >> running it connects back to the "terminal server" ( Linux
>>>> server ).
>>>> >> That's where all the applications are. Everything runs from
>>>> the terminal
>>>> >> server.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The thin clients can be old PC's because all the
>>>> applications run on the
>>>> >> server. All the thin client provides is keyboard, mouse and
>>>> video
>>>> >> access. My thin client's are PII with no hard drive.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If you want to learn more check out www.ltsp.org
>>>> <http://www.ltsp.org>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Blake Eggemeyer wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> right now we have macs and PCs that login to get files and
>>>> stuff, the
>>>> >>> standard roaming profile stuff.
>>>> >>> i want to set up a normal PC as a linux server, and 1 or 2
>>>> of them as
>>>> >>> work stations, just to prove the concept.
>>>> >>> the tech guy is only intrigued, not really investigating,
>>>> so i need to
>>>> >>> make a case for him to really consider this.
>>>> >>> one of the big points, and one which i have no experience
>>>> in, is
>>>> >>> active directory software. not having good management
>>>> software that
>>>> >>> can push images and stuff is a deal breaker!
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On 9/11/06, *Damien Hull* < dhull@digitaloverload.net
>>>> <mailto:dhull@digitaloverload.net>
>>>> >>> <mailto: dhull@digitaloverload.net
>>>> <mailto:dhull@digitaloverload.net>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Blake Eggemeyer wrote:
>>>> >>> > the tech guy at south is at least intreaged by the
>>>> posibility of
>>>> >>> linux
>>>> >>> > is there an easy way to set a test case of a server
>>>>
>>> and
>>>

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Received on Thu Sep 14 00:23:41 2006