Re: Learning Linux from scratch

From: <jonr@destar.net>
Date: Wed Mar 14 2007 - 15:40:56 AKDT

Quoting Adam Bultman <adamb@glaven.org>:

> barsalou wrote:
> > Damien has mentioned that he is going through LFS and building linux
> > from scratch. This is a worthy exercise and anyone wanting to learn
> > about Linux from the ground up will be happy they made the trip.
> >
> > Additionally, since putting the Nevaeh vmplayer appliance on
> > ftp.aklug.org, it seems a few of you have downloaded it and only one
> > has said they started it and played with it a little.
> >
> > I'd like to start a series, via e-mail to work with this distribution.
> > From my perspective, it's claim to fame is that it is small, versatile
> > and aimed at folks wanting to learn linux but also want a production
> > level (at least for the server) OS.
> >
> > Some of Nevaeh's main features are that everything is kept as close to
> > the minimum as possible but never cutting you off from expanding things.
> >
> > If this sounds interesting to you folks, let me know, and I'll put an
> > outline together and we can get started.
> >
> > One question you might ask is, what in the world would you want to use
> > such a bare bones distro, when you have Fedora, Suse, Ubuntu?
> >
> > The simple answer is, I don't want to become a Microsoftie of Linux. I
> > think it is awesome that all the neat GUI tools that are out there and
> > make my desktop easy to use. But I also want to be able to manipulate
> > these things at a closer to the hardware level.
> >
> > Maybe this doesn't interest everyone....I'm fairly certain about that,
> > but hopefully it will provide an avenue of appreciation for all the
> > work that distros like Fedora, Suse and Ubuntu do for us.
> >
> >
>
> I wanted to respond to this last night, but decided to download the
> vmware image and run it to see how things were before I ran my mouth
> off. Having downloaded, booted, and played around with nevaeh, I can now
> run my mouth off.
>
> Regarding nevaeh:
> ____________________
> I think the complete lack of any email threads about nevaeh speaks
> volumes. Out of the entire lug, I have only heard two people speak
> about it until today: Mike Barsalou and Shane Spencer. Continuing to
> push nevaeh, which is small, managed and updated by one user, and
> un-documented, would be a disservice to people at aklug as well as
> anybody who might stop by for a meeting while it is being worked on. It
> is tiny, yes, and directed, yes, but for 99.999% of users, it is
> uninviting, unintuitive, and bested by preexisting distributions.
> There's nothing that nevaeh does that gentoo does not; and gentoo has
> reams of documentation in multple languages as well as many enthusiasts
> more than willing to hold a user's hand through problems. There are
> forums and IRC people waiting to help people through with any problems
> that might not be already discussed and solved and documented.
>
> Regarding being closer to hardware:
> ________________________________________
>
> If one wants to be closer to hardware, then Linux From Scratch is what
> you're looking for. Neveah seems no closer to the hardware than gentoo,
> and gentoo is a lot more user friendly. I haven't used linux from
> scratch, but from what I've read it is very involved and very informative.
>
> Regarding being Microsoftie:
> __________________________________
>
> Seriously now, that's a deliberate attempt to drive a wedge between
> linux users. It creates two tiers of users, "those people" an the
> elite. And that pisses me off. I cannot stand "measuring contests",
> and I get irritated when people "pull rank" when people ask questions.
> Just because someone doesn't use nevaeh, Gentoo, or Linux From Scratch,
> or hasn't been using linux for 10 years doesn't mean they are a
> microsoftie. It means they don't want to wait forever for their system
> to finish building, don't want to have to tinker with config files to
> get X to show up. I personally have things to do, which is why I use
> Ubuntu. With a few commands and a CD, I can get up and running within 2
> hours, preserving my old home directory, all necessary configurations
> and packages. I got sick of waiting 40 hours for my gentoo build to
> complete to the point where I could *begin* configuring the beast. And
> I used gentoo for a number of years (even went so far as to start
> installing it in production.)
>
>
> In summation:
> __________________
> 1. Stop pushing nevaeh. It seems as if there is only one interested
> user in the entire LUG.
> 2. If we're going to push "low-level" or whatever, push a more
> widely-supported distro: gentoo,linux from scratch, or another.
> 3. Let's not create classes of users. The best linux advocates (and
> most helpful people) don't give a rat's behind as to how many years
> you've put in, how many distros you've ran, or how many computers you
> run linux on. They'll answer your question without being derisive no
> matter how stupid the question, and will help you learn as much as
> possible in the process. People with one more day's experience is often
> all someone needs to figure something out. The worst linux advocates
> and least helpful people are the elitists. "I put in my time, you can
> go RTFM for all I care", or "I don't use that newb distro, go find
> somebody who does" seems to be very predominant among these users and
> tend to not only scare people off, but turn them vehemently against linux.
>
>
> Disclaimer:
> ______________
> I do not speak for everyone. My comments regarding nevaeh are my own,
> although I believe the amount of chatter about nevaeh justifies summary
> point #1. Perhaps there's nonstop chatter at the meetings about it,
> but I haven't been able to make as many because I moved out of
> Anchorage, and can only stop by once a month or so.

sheesh.

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Received on Wed Mar 14 14:40:56 2007

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